Dr Louise Newson: [01:00:01] Demi Santana Brown is on my podcast today, and we talk about her journey with endometriosis. We talk about how natural, body identical hormones can reduce inflammation, help with pain for women with endometriosis. But very frustratingly, we also talk about medical misogyny, about medical gaslighting, about women not being listened to or taken seriously. So much has got to change to help women with the endometreosis. So I hope you enjoy today's podcast. So Demi, you're here in the studio despite having an endo flare, despite almost not coming, you are here, which is great. So thank you for coming.  [01:00:42][41.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:00:42] Thank you for having me.  [01:00:43][0.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:00:43] No, it's great. I, a lot of people think that all I do is menopause and actually it's not at all. I think a lot about hormones for everybody. And I'm very interested in the role of natural hormones to reduce inflammation and a big, well, I think women just have a short, they just don't have a good deal, regardless of what they have, disease-wise. But endometriosis is a condition, you read that affects one in 10 women, I think it's more than that. You read the average time for diagnosis is eight years, and I think that's more than that, and then even when you have a diagnosis, most people don't know the right treatment. Is that fair to say?  [01:01:21][38.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:01:22] Absolutely. I agree with everything you just said. I was like one in 10, absolutely not. There's so many people that I speak to that have similar symptoms to what I have. And as I said, I don't feel like I was treated seriously until I hit 25.  [01:01:33][11.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:01:34] Which  is awful isn't it? [01:01:35][0.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:01:35] So there's probably so many young girls out there that are struggling.  [01:01:36][1.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:01:37] So how old are you now?  [01:01:37][0.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:01:38] I'm 33. [01:01:38][0.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:01:39] So you've had a long time, like nearly 20 years then? [01:01:42][3.1]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:01:42] Yeah, still fighting like to actually be seen with my consultant and stuff like that.  [01:01:46][4.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:01:46] So tell me a bit about your story then, if that's okay. [01:01:49][2.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:01:50] Yeah, when I was younger, I struggled, when I started my periods, I was like thirteen, struggled with really heavy periods, not so much pain to begin with. And then when I become like sexually active, that's when the pain started to come alongside it. And I was going back and forth to the doctors, like, asking for help. And when I was told I had IBS, they said stuff about my prolactin being high. So I was essentially told to go to different departments and not really taken seriously until I kind of had a bit of a mental breakdown. And then they'd took me a bit more serious. And then I had my keyhole surgery in 2019 and was told that I had endometriosis, but at the time I'd never heard of the name. I didn't have a clue what that was. So obviously you go to Google and you start typing in things and yeah, from there just been trying to figure out what the condition is and how to make my life a little bit easier with it. And I suppose over time I've like the holistic healing and cutting out foods and stuff like that. It's still a battle, because as much as I log, you know, something new always pops up or some other symptom that I didn't know was related to endo occurs. So yeah, still on that journey of trying to figure it out.  [01:03:00][69.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:03:00] So is it long time. But you're, I mean, you were a footballer, weren't you?  [01:03:03][3.1]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:03:04] Yeah, I missed out on that part. So yeah, I love, I still play football now, but I played at quite a high level when I was younger. So I got scouted to play for Millwall when I was like 15 and went off to play at West Ham and Leighton Orient and stuff like that. So it was good, but every time I would have a period, it was like the anxiety of like, what colour kit are we wearing this week? Like, am I going to be able to play, like making up excuses to essentially not play.  [01:03:30][26.3]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:03:30] Because your periods were heavy?  [01:03:30][0.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:03:30] Yeah. So I used to worry. I mean when I was like 14 or 13, yeah, 14, we played for a team called Long Lane, my first ever team and our kit, our away kit was white. And obviously our manager was, he was a male, bless him. So, I love Mick, but yeah, he thought it looked nice, but we were so anxious, you know, but me, especially, I used, to wear that five pairs of knickers because I didn't know, like I didn't speak about it to anyone. So I didn't know it wasn't normal. So yeah, like it was, it was a lot, but you know, thank goodness for period knickers now.  [01:04:05][35.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:04:06] Yeah, yeah, but still just to have that anxiety when you're supposed to have your head in the game must be really difficult.  [01:04:12][6.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:04:14] Yeah, it was hard but you love the sport so you get through it.  [01:04:19][4.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:04:19] Yeah. And then you've tried some contraceptive hormones in the past.  [01:04:24][5.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:04:25] So yeah, I went on the Pill when I was 16. The doctor advised that actually. And it just made me go a bit crazy. I felt like I was having episodes of just feeling like really low or just couldn't regulate my emotions.  [01:04:43][18.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:04:44] Quite scary then.  [01:04:45][0.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:04:45] Yeah, so that lasted for about two and a half years and then I just come off of it.  [01:04:50][5.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:04:51] Ok, did anyone tell you that could be related to being on the contraceptive?  [01:04:55][3.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:04:56] I think it was my sister because my sister is very like against contraception to be honest or putting anything in your body that, anything in your body to be honest. So she was like, no, like don't, you don't need that. And I come off of it and I started to feel better within myself and I was like oh actually, that's what it is. So yeah, I was, like, won't be going back on that.  [01:05:18][21.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:05:18] Yeah, because obviously they're not the same as our own hormones, they're synthetic. So that's a chemical that's been made to look like hormones, but it doesn't work in the same way as the body. And we know that it can block our natural hormones working. So quite a few people, when it blocks the hormones in the brain can negatively affect mental health.  [01:05:36][17.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:05:36] Oh, wow.  [01:05:37][0.3]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:05:37] But it's, there's very little research done on it because when the Pill came out, they didn't have to do the research that you would now for a new drug treatment. So it's never been tested on the brain or other organs when it came to market. So there are some studies that show that it can have a negative effect, especially on the adolescent brain, which is constantly remodelling and changing and everything as well, so... [01:06:00][23.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:06:01] Yeah, that's scary. I didn't know that to be honest with you. Yeah, but that would explain a lot.  [01:06:09][8.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:06:09] Yeah. And also it can block the way that our natural hormones work throughout our body. So it can increase inflammation, which when you've got endometriosis, as you know, it's an inflammatory condition, well there's still a lot that people don't know about it. But it's, as, you know it's where tissue similar to the lining of the womb is elsewhere. And there's all sorts of theories why people have it. But when there are lots of theories, it basically means that no-one knows and everyone's just trying to decide in their own way, but it's, I don't think it's a gynaecological issue because you can get endometriosis elsewhere in the body. As you know, people can get it in the bowel or their diaphragm or the lungs. So it's not really a gynaecological condition. Whereas when you've got endometrosis, it's usually a gynaecologist that look after you, isn't it.  [01:06:57][48.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:06:57] Yeah, absolutely. And I only found out last year that it's not just in that area, that it can spread up to the lungs and even parts of your brain.  [01:07:06][8.3]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:07:06] Yeah.  [01:07:06][0.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:07:07] I was like, what! I've never heard of that, but it is good that people are sharing the awareness around that now as well.  [01:07:13][6.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:07:14] So what other treatments have you had for your endometriosis?  [01:07:16][2.4]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:07:16] So I had keyhole surgery where I had ablations, so they lasered off the tissue. And again, I wish I knew at the time what that even was, because I would have asked for them to cut out the tissue.  [01:07:30][13.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:07:30] Did it make any difference?  [01:07:31][0.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:07:33] After I had that surgery, I had the worst flare up that I have ever experienced. I actually ended up back in hospital. I had an infection though, which is quite common after you've had that kind of surgery so they had to give me or like put the antibiotics in. But yeah, my periods after that for a while were just really bad. And then it did die down a bit, but then it started back up. And I was like, surely in my head, I thought you have the surgery and then everything is OK. I was like everything is going to be fine. And then I think mentally it had another toll on me because it was like going back to the doctors and they were just like, oh, yeah, we've done the surgery come back when you're looking to do fertility.  [01:08:14][41.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:08:16] Is that what they said to you?  [01:08:16][0.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:08:18] Yeah, that was it.  [01:08:18][0.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:08:20] That wasn't very helpful, is it?  [01:08:21][1.5]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:08:21] No, like we've done kind of all we can do. And then I was kind of discharged from my consultant and I didn't even know I was discharged. I just thought that when I go back to the doctors, I'll be able to see that consultant. And they were like, oh no, you've been discharged.  [01:08:36][14.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:08:38] So that's it then.  [01:08:38][0.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:08:38] What do you mean? I'm still getting problems though. I still have symptoms. And I had to get re-referred and everything to go back on to see my consultant for more scans and stuff.  [01:08:49][10.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:08:49] So have you had any treatment that's helped you?  [01:08:51][1.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:08:53] Just loads of pain relief to be honest with you. And that's not, it's just what I do to cope, to be fair. What other contraception have I tried... No, just the Pill. [01:09:06][12.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:09:08] And what about natural hormones? You said you'd be reading a bit, but I think...  [01:09:12][3.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:09:11] Yeah, I need to do that. No, I haven't. To be fair, I only just found out that there are synthetic hormones and natural ones. Where do I get those from?  [01:09:21][9.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:09:21] Yeah, I know, it's really interesting. So when I prescribe hormones to people, I'm prescribing the exact chemical that we produce because everything has got its own chemical structure. So we have progesterone, which I'm sure you've heard of, estradiol, which is a form of estrogen that's anti-inflammatory and also testosterone. And they're all three hormones that our ovaries make, our brain makes, other tissues like our adrenal glands make. And they're sort of fluctuating throughout. What's really interesting is that they work very differently to the synthetic hormones. So the synthetic hormones in contraception shouldn't really be called hormones because they're not. They're a different chemical and like I say, they can block our own hormones working. But I'm very interested in anything that is going to reduce inflammation in the body is good for your health and especially if you've got endometriosis or adenomyosis where...  [01:10:12][51.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:10:13] I've got that as well. [01:10:13][0.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:10:13] So that's where the tissue like the lining of the womb is in the womb, isn't it. In the wall of the womb. So that can flare. And actually, when you look down a microscope at endometriosis sort of lesions, if you like, they've got their own inflammatory cells in there as well. So there's like inflammation that your body is producing. And then the inflammation that is actually in the system, you've got like a double whammy of inflammation. And with inflammation, it can cause pain as well. So when I look at the natural hormones, how they work in the body, because they help reduce inflammation, that's good. Also, they help modulate the pain receptors. So that's why a lot of women actually feel pain more the days before their periods when hormones naturally drop. So it's not that it's all in our heads. We actually, you know, if I stick a pin on you, the second day of your period or the second before your period, the same injury will cause a different pain response because our hormones are really important for how our pain receptors work. And so that's the other thing is that I don't want my patients to be in pain. I don't want them to have a disease, but I also don't want them to suffer. So then when I think about giving those natural hormones, they can reduce inflammation and help pain. So that's two big ticks. [01:11:32][79.1]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:11:34] Immediately.  [01:11:34][0.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:11:37] But the other thing that's quite interesting, which I've read a lot about, is there's been some studies for many years actually that show that women with endometriosis are more likely to have low testosterone, even born with it. And then as they grow and age, still the testosterone level's low. And so when I see people with endometriosis in my clinic, I always do testosterone blood tests and it's always low in people with the endometreosis.  [01:12:01][23.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:02] So I recently got my hormones tested, yeah.  [01:12:04][2.9]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:05] Did you, oh, ok. And what do they show?  [01:12:07][1.4]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:07] They come back good.  [01:12:07][0.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:08] Okay can I have a look?  [01:12:09][0.5]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:11] Yes you can have a look. It said the marker on it said like good for each one.  [01:12:14][2.9]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:14] Ok.  [01:12:14][0.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:15] And you can go through what they are.  [01:12:18][2.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:18] So you just did this online, so no one's spoken to you about it. Ok, so let's have a look.  [01:12:23][4.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:24] No one has spoken to me. But I got the blood done, that's the results.  [01:12:25][1.2]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:26] So your testosterone says it's green good, but when I look at the number, have you read the number or did you just see the good bit? [01:12:33][6.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:34] I just saw the good, I was just happy to go... [01:12:34][0.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:35] So, okay, the number is 0.591. So the clue is in the zero, like...  [01:12:42][6.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:43] What should it mean?  [01:12:44][0.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:44] Well, it's a range, but you can have it up to about 2. So that's about a quarter.  [01:12:51][6.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:12:51] I want at least a 1 on there.  [01:12:52][1.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:12:52] Yeah. So that is low. Your estradiol, it says good and it's in a normal range, but it's only done that day. Like if I do it today or tomorrow, it would be a different result. So it's only a guide. And that's all that they've measured. Progesterone is the other hormone that we don't often do a level because it can fluctuate so much. And what's in your blood isn't the same as what's in the rest of your body. But certainly that testosterone 0.591 is low. And I've just written an article about testosterone levels on Balance app actually, because what's really frustrating is that what they do is they compare it to apparently normal women, but that's, the apparently is in the clue, like you don't know what's... So you could say, well, it's normal to have low testosterone when you're in your 30s. Is it really, because I've already told you testosterone is an important hormone. Reduces inflammation, it can help with mood, energy, concentration, stamina. So they don't really know what is normal, but we do know that women can normally have levels, depending on the laboratory, up to about 2 or 2.3. So if I see zero point something in my mind and probably a two-year-old's mind, that is low.  [01:14:11][78.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:14:12] Well, so, I just saw good, but yeah, no, that's not, I don't even know if that's acceptable.  [01:14:16][4.4]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:14:17] This highlights the problems with doing online tests. because it says, balance levels support energy mood, libido, reproductive health, and overall wellbeing. True. But yours isn't balanced, although it says good, it isn't. So it's really, really misleading. So I hate to tell you, but I think you've wasted your money on that.  [01:14:36][18.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:14:37] Well, thank you. It's good to know. [01:14:38][1.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:14:40] Yeah, because like I said, hormone blood tests are only a guide. Anything we do in medicine, any test is a guide, the most important thing is looking at the patient. What you'll be pleased to hear is more important than anything else. But that testosterone level being low with your symptoms, if you were my patient, I would say, well, we could try some testosterone and also I would probably try progesterone as well. But this is really important that It's the natural progesterone. So it's the same as our own progesterone. Lots of people have low progesterone, partly because there's so many endocrine disruptors in what we do, like the way that we eat, whatever we put on our skin, all the sort of pollution, everything, it can affect our endocrine system. So a lot of people who have low progesterone and a lot of people find that they have less energy, they don't feel quite the same. And can feel just a bit low or stress can reduce progesterone levels as well. So if someone's had a lot of stress in their lives, a lot of trauma, that can increase our cortisol, but then it can drain our progesterone. And so we have less hormones as well, so quite often we give progesterone and testosterone and then someone might or might not need estradiol, you know, it's looking at the three hormones very separately. So, but like I say, having the right hormones can reduce inflammation and reduce pain, which are two big important things in endo really.  [01:16:07][86.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:16:06] And what I'm really trying to do is reduce my inflammation. So I've done like changes. I used to drink alcohol quite a lot and I don't drink alcohol now...  [01:16:15][9.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:16:16] Good, excellent.  [01:16:17][0.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:16:18] Because yeah, the difference that I noticed in terms of feeling, like my flares. And yeah, so like it's just not worth it. And then there's other things, but I don't to be honest with you, I don t know if they're working or not with the other things that I've been trying to do. [01:16:30][12.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:16:30] It's really difficult, isn't it because you don't know what you'd be like if you hadn't made changes as well, but you're still struggling with symptoms.  [01:16:37][6.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:16:37] Yeah, that's what, to me, I feel like I've done like quite good. Well, actually, no, I did just get back from holiday and I did not stick to the rules that I would normally stick to. So that probably would explain why my period has been more painful. And as you were speaking, I was like, no way, because literally two days before I come on my period, I was experiencing all the pains, like the lower backache, the sharp pains up my leg, the cramps. And I was thinking, my period's going to be so bad, but actually the worst pain was leading up to the period. And then whilst I'm on my period, it's more the heaviness. So then that's just like the fatigue and low energy. But the pain was definitely way before the period had come. [01:17:14][37.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:17:17] Yeah, then that's when you have a big decline in progesterone the days before your period. Then when you're having a period, your progesterone comes up a bit, but probably not enough, so that's why you're still having a heavy period. So often when we give progesterone, people have a lot lighter, more manageable periods as well, which makes such a difference.  [01:17:33][16.1]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:17:34] And I didn't know that either, so that explains a lot. I mean, on my track, because I track my periods and my symptoms and stuff like that, just to understand what is going on. Yeah, and that's always a thing, like before I come on my period.  [01:17:48][13.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:17:51] So, I mean, a lot of what I do is very simplistic medicine, but it's become really complicated somehow. And what frustrates me is that people, you know, like you, are suffering when you might not have to suffer in the same way. And a lot gynaecologists don't think about hormones as in the difference between the natural hormones and synthetic hormones. And I've been to quite a lot conferences where they'll just talk about give people with endometriosis the Mirena coil. Or give them the synthetic hormones and if they don't work, it's not a hormonal problem. And I'm like, but it's not the same. It's completely different in the body.  [01:18:27][35.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:18:28] Yeah, that's very interesting and now I'm definitely like, what hormones do I need to put, what natural hormones do I have to put in my body? [01:18:37][8.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:18:37] It's interesting, one of my colleagues I know, who's a lovely person who works in America, and she does a lot of work for fertility, but she's very much about lifestyle, making inflammation as low as possible before thinking about any fertility drugs. And she said when she does a laparoscopy on people that have endometriosis, she always says to them, have six months of natural hormones before even thinking about trying to get pregnant. So really optimise, not just your health style, but your lifestyle, but also have those hormones to reduce inflammation. And she said that if she does a laparoscopy again on those women, she said you can literally see the endometriosis has disappeared or really reduced.  [01:19:22][45.4]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:19:23] Would that be the same with fibroids?  [01:19:24][1.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:19:25] Possibly, yeah. Have you got fibroids as well? [01:19:26][0.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:19:28]  Oh yeah, I've got the triple thret. Yeah, so that's like sometimes I don't know if it's the endo, if it is the adeno, or if it the fibroids, but yeah. Just trying to shrink and get rid of as much as possible. [01:19:37][9.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:19:39]  Yeah, and it's very interesting with fibroids because again, you know, a lot of this is not coming from research because the research hasn't been done. When I was at medical school, I was taught that estrogen feeds the fibroid and they shrink after menopause. And I'm like, that's interesting, how is that to be? And no-one's really given me a proper explanation. But like I said to you, it's not just about estrogen anyway. So I think a lot of people with fibroids have had low progesterone for a long time. Maybe testosterone as well, but giving testosterone and progesterone will not worsen fibroids at all.  [01:20:13][34.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:20:13] They won't worsen it?  [01:20:14][0.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:20:14] No, not at all.  [01:20:15][0.7]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:20:16] So, and they would help with the inflammation for the endometriosis, so it's a win-win, regardless. [01:20:21][4.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:20:21] Yeah. And often in medicine, like I would hate to say, I am definitely going to make you better because that is wrong. Like no-one can say that, but I can say the chances are you will improve. But also we give people something to try and see. Like you were given the contraceptive pill and it didn't help. Then you knew eventually to stop it. So with these hormones, I'll often say to people, try them for three to six months. And then you can decide whether they improve you or not. And, you know, I see a lot of people who were in their 20s, younger than you, and I saw someone recently and the gynaecologist said to her, the pain is all in your head. You can either do more exercise, have a hysterectomy or get pregnant. And they were the three choices she was given.  [01:21:07][46.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:21:08] Yeah, that sounds very familiar. Maybe not the pain all in your head, but definitely lose weight. And I've, I'm sorry, my mind blows because I work out and I do exercise. So I'm like, there's something going on with the fact that when I'm having a week off of exercise and eating, I blow up. I don't understand it. And then being told to have a baby, but you've never... What? Do you know how insensitive that is? I just can't...  [01:21:34][26.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:21:34] I find that's, I just, I can't imagine them saying to a man, the same things. I just to say to a woman, regardless of whether she wants a baby or not, that having a baby would improve your symptoms. You have a baby because you want a baby. You don't have it as a treatment for a condition. But one of the things I guess they're indirectly saying what they're maybe not thinking about it is that if you had more hormones in your body, you will feel better because that's what happens often. When people are pregnant, they have progesterone in their body. They have a high amount of testosterone and estradiol in their body, which reduces inflammation. But you don't need to get pregnant to have hormones in your body. So there's a lot we need to try and unpick really. But the problem is in medicine is that people often learn from their consultants. If the consultants say you have to have synthetic hormones or an ablation then you never learn and people don't get treated properly. And then as I'm sure you speak to a lot of people with endometriosis, they're just in the dark.  [01:22:40][65.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:22:41] They've got nowhere to go to be honest with you.  [01:22:41][0.4]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:22:41] Have you spoken to anybody who's had good treatments? [01:22:46][4.5]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:22:46]  No, no, I've spoken to some that have found good consultants now. But like these are like proper like specialists in their field and it's really hard and really expensive. So it's in terms of being accessible. No, it's not accessible. But yeah, a lot of women that I have spoken to like it's very traumatic. And that's why sometimes I love being in the endo community because I feel like people get it as well, but then at the same time it can be very heavy because there's so much trauma in there. And it's like, wow... [01:23:23][37.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:23:25] Do you think that's trauma because they've had medical misogyny and awful experiences with doctors.  [01:23:30][4.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:23:30] Absolutely. There is definitely medical misogyny. Even my own experience, I thought it was in my head because the pushback was just crazy. Until I was 25, as I said, I don't feel like anyone was really listening.  [01:23:48][17.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:23:49] And that's still happening now?  [01:23:50][0.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:23:50] Yeah, absolutely. I've got a family member who's younger, my niece, she won't mind me...and, you know, it's the same things that I was told.  [01:23:59][8.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:24:02] So it's not getting better?  [01:24:03][0.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:24:03] I don't think so. Well, I see in certain areas, right, like, because I see a lot now when I get invited to certain talks and stuff like that. So in that aspect, yeah, the awareness is there and people are speaking about it. Whereas I don't think they were when I was younger, but what's the action?  [01:24:20][16.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:24:20] Well, this is what I can't understand, because I think you're right, the awareness is people are talking about people know what endometriosis is, but the suffering and the pain is still there. But it's the stories of women being gaslit by doctors seem to be worse than ever. And I, I don't, I was always trained as a doctor to listen and believe my patients, which I do every day, but also to be honest with them. So if I didn't know what treatment and I said to you, I think you've got endometriosis, I don't really know the treatmernt, but I'll try and find out. That's probably okay, isn't it, for me to say that as a doctor. [01:24:58][37.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:24:58] Oh absolutely.  [01:24:58][0.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:24:59] But not to say go and get pregnant or it's all in your head. Like it just seems wrong.  [01:25:03][4.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:25:03] Yeah, because then it's adding a pressure onto the person as well that they don't necessarily, they don't need that. Or yeah, it's just, yeah, beingd for years like it's just a bad period. And then believing it as well. But yeah, this is crazy.  [01:25:19][16.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:25:20] But even if it is 'just' a bad period, there is treatment for that as well. And that's where, like, I get really frustrated with the labelling of women, you know, my youngest daughter has heavy painful periods and she hasn't been on synthetic hormones, which I think is good because I think then she probably would get endometriosis. I mean, she still might have it. I don't think so, but now she takes natural progesterone and she's definitely a lot better. And it's really difficult because there's no rush to label someone. The rush in my mind is to treat them and treat in a very simplistic way with the lowest risks possible.  [01:25:59][39.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:26:01] But then the system's not built like that, it's built to label and then treat, if you're lucky, and then half the treatment is, yeah, and the aftercare is non-existent.  [01:26:13][12.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:26:14] It's terrible, isn't it?  [01:26:15][0.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:26:15] It's non-existant.  [01:26:15][0.5]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:26:15] I'm also hearing from quite a lot of people with endometriosis who have hormone blockers so they have Zoladex injections.  [01:26:21][6.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:26:22] Yeah, I've heard of this.  [01:26:23][0.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:26:23] Yeah, and I can't understand why you'd block someone's hormones when they're young.  [01:26:27][3.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:26:28] Yeah, I wouldn't, but I don't know if that actually helps them though.  [01:26:32][4.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:26:33] Well, the thing is, sometimes the endometriosis can flare because of changing hormone levels. So if you got rid of the hormones, sometimes people feel better because they haven't got the changing hormone levels. But the problem is then it's like giving you menopause. So then a lot of people have symptoms and without those hormones, there's more inflammation in the rest of the body, more diseases like heart disease and osteoporosis and diabetes so it's just like, I spoke to someone recently who's 20 and she'd been given one of these hormone blockers for endometriosis, but she worked in a nursery and she said, I've had to give up my job because I've got brain fog, I can't look after the children. And the consultant said, that's all the treatment you can have. And she's 20 and I'm like, Oh dear, that doesn't sound right. You know.  [01:27:20][47.5]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:27:21] Yeah, no, that's not good. And then the other one being hysterectomy as well, like that option, being told that in your 20s as well.  [01:27:27][6.2]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:27:28] Yeah, that was really hard, isn't it? So we need to think differently and a lot of my work, and there's a lot information on Balance, on endometriosis and hormones. And I'm not saying it will work for everyone, but I'm saying it's worth considering having natural hormones and see if it helps. And if it helps your pain, helps reduce periods, then it's got to be a beneficial thing and it has no long term detrimental effect because it's just topping up your own hormones.  [01:27:54][26.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:27:54] So you would suggest like three to six months? [01:27:56][1.9]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:27:58] Yeah, like you do in most things, you know, it can take a little while. One of my patients is 24 now and she's had symptoms for a long, well, long time, like nearly ten years and the first few weeks she kept saying, I don't feel any better, I don't feel better. And I was like, just hang on. And now it's six months and she has completely transformed. So because the hormones are such a low dose really, and they've got to work, your body has to get used to them, any inflammation makes a difference but it can take a little while.  [01:28:28][30.2]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:28:31] I've got so many questions in my head, I'm like, does this help with weight as well?  [01:28:36][4.2]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:28:36] It can do.  [01:28:36][0.3]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:28:37] Can it because... yeah.  [01:28:38][0.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:28:39] Yeah, so our hormones work on every cell and they help our metabolism and our control of insulin and glucose metabolism as well. So a lot of people find that when they don't have hormones then or they don't have the right level then they have different amounts of glucose and insulin in the body so you can't metabolise the same way. So it's a bit like having pre-diabetes almost, you know, and then quite a few people have sugar cravings as well when their hormone levels are low. And it's all very well to say to a woman, just ignore them... [01:29:10][31.0]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:29:11] Yeah, that's really hard. I'm not going to lie.  [01:29:12][1.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:29:13] But it's a physiological thing because your body is craving sugar because your hormone levels are dropping your sugar. So a lot of people sometimes feel a bit lightheaded or whatever.  [01:29:22][8.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:29:23] And you just need a quick sugar fix to come out of a headache.  [01:29:25][2.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:29:26] But the best thing is treating what's the cause of this change in sugar levels. Oh, it's the low hormones. Give those hormones. And a lot of people find, especially testosterone actually, like stops the appetite in the same way. A lot women are constantly thinking about when am I going to eat next? Whereas men just eat when they're hungry. It's a different thing.  [01:29:45][18.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:29:46] So I need that level up.  [01:29:46][0.0]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:29:46] Yeah. So that level is not good. Yeah. No, so yeah, and what I always say to people well it'll still be physiological, so you're not going to grow a beard or moustache, it's just a small amount of topping up your natural hormones.  [01:30:01][14.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:30:03] I already have that anyway. I don't mind adding to it. I've got a few hairs here and there. I'm just like, what is that? [01:30:07][3.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:30:07] Well, again, it's balancing your hormones. It's all about, but it's balancing all three hormones that's really important. [01:30:12][4.4]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:30:12] Ok, yes, I was going to say, I feel like even though I had those tests, I felt like if you was to test me now, it would be completely different in all those areas.  [01:30:18][6.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:30:19] Yes and that's where it's listening to the patient, which is not happening.  [01:30:22][2.9]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:30:24] Yes because even if the hormones are showing that now, but my symptoms are this, then obviously there's something going on.  [01:30:28][3.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:30:28] Totally. So yeah, you need to think about your hormones in a natural way.  [01:30:31][3.6]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:30:31] I need to get on your waiting list. I bet that's long.  [01:30:33][1.8]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:30:34] No, it's fine. We can help you in the clinic. Absolutely. And it's just important for people to be empowered with knowledge. So it's great that you've come. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I always end with three take-home tips. So three things that you think people should know about endometriosis when they're suffering.  [01:30:54][20.1]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:30:54] You are not alone. That's the first one because community is key and that's really helped me. The second one, knowing how to reduce inflammation because that has saved me in terms of the pain. So alcohol for me is one of the things and you have to find out what is your trigger and then the next one, come and listen to Louise.  [01:31:18][23.1]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:31:19] Oh, I love you.  [01:31:19][0.5]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:31:20] Yeah, because she has got some good answers and takeaway tips. So whatever I don't have the answers to, I know you're going to have it.  [01:31:27][6.9]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:31:27] Perfect. Right answer. Thank you so much for coming today. It's been great.  [01:31:31][3.8]

Demi Santana Brown: [01:31:32] No, thank you for having me. I really, really appreciate it. I mean, I was so close to not coming because I wasn't feeling well but I feel so much better being here. So I really do appreciate the time.  [01:31:40][8.6]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:31:40] Excellent. Thank you so much.  [01:31:42][1.7]

Dr Louise Newson: [01:31:45] So just a quick one, it would be really great if you could follow or subscribe to this podcast. This will really help me reach more people with evidence-based information about hormones and their future health and also means you never miss a future episode. Thank you.  [01:31:45][0.0]

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